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IS Honesty the best Policy?

IS Honesty the best Policy?

Becca's Chava Chat

Is honesty the best policy?  This is a thought that crosses my mind quite frequently. Being a parent, one must be cautious or heed caution when guiding/raising their children.

We teach and preach to our younglings, at an early age that they should NOT tell lies or fibs. That in doing so, such falsity, no matter how small could eventually snowball into something disastrous.

For instance, telling someone that you have a certain item that you do not actually own. Now say that someone pays you a surprise visit and asks to see such said item, what do you do?

Do you A) Say, “you have missed placed the item?”  B) Say,” it is out for repair?” C) Say,” a friend is borrowing it?” Or D) Say, “I don’t actually “Have” said item, but I wish I did.”

Obviously, my example is probably a harmless sample by far. That doesn’t make the lesson less valuable. Sometimes the “Truth” does hurt, but Deceit can be far worse, even fatal at times.

Now, speaking on my own behalf and a “choice” between, telling the truth versus lie/fabrication, I decided to go with; “Sometimes the truth hurts.” My oldest was only 9 at the time and she had witnessed things a nine year old should never have to see. These disturbing events were between her father and I, which resulted in a divorce.

I will not disclose more than that, but will say, I told her the truth as to WHY it had happened. There was no “cover up” or “white lie” or even “bending/fabricating” of the truth, I gave it to her straight.  Whether that was right or wrong on my part, it was my decision. Personally, I feel that I had made the right choice.  Well, that’s my “Point of View.”

 Ah, the infamous line: “So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.”-Obi-wan Kenobi/Ben

 

Ever since I can remember, this dialog has intrigued me.  Even more after the Prequel Trilogy was complete.

It’s fascinating how someone could alter the truth in such a way, that they actually perceived/deemed it as “acceptable.”  Not to mention, to pass it along without finding fault or accepting ownership in any wrongdoing on his part.

“You’ll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon your own point of view.” – Obi-wan

 

Let me just point out, this would not be permissible in a court of law. Modifying the truth, to your liking, would be considered a LIE (tampering with evidence) during a trial.

Ok, staying on target, was Obi-wan right to change the truth about Luke’s father? Recasting those events, did he not fear any repercussions? Or possible consequences his words may cause for, Luke or the galaxy when all was said and done? With that said, his so called “testimony” of the truth, or his version of it, is somewhat of a “cop out.” Yes? No? A certain point of view, yes, possibly so. Let’s face it, Darth Vader is either Luke’s father or he isn’t. Truth, after all, is but a perception of one’s own confirmations, right?

Delving even further into this topic of Truth and Lies, what about Vader? He is the villain, right? A Master of Evil, more machine than man. Obi-wan goes on and says that his, old pupil is “twisted and evil.”

Interesting…..

The mentor and man that Luke trusts the most, the man he upholds with such high regard and faith, has deceived him.

“He was deceived by a lie; we all were.” –Obi-wan

 

Now that’s intriguing, isn’t it?

He (Obi-wan) knows exactly what he is doing, right?  I mean, he couldn’t have forgotten how the Chancellor played everyone as his personal pawns. How this Dark Lord manipulated the entire Senate, the Jedi Order, and their “Chosen One” into handing over the galaxy on a silver platter? Of course not, those were the “Dark Times” and he, like Yoda, have been in exile ever since.

Ok, ponder those questions for a moment while we take a look at this, Bad Guy, Darth Vader.

Once they engage each other (Luke and Vader), Vader doesn’t hold back, he tells Luke the truth. “No Luke, I am your father.” –Vader

This visage of pure evil, the one he has been destined to confront, divulges the Real Truth. Talk about a virtual slap in the face! All this time, all that he (Luke) was taught to believe in, was a hoax? Oh, this is good, real good (cue sarcastic tone). Wait a minute, what about the stories? Does Luke question the, Jedi Tales that Obi-wan told him back on Tatooine?

“He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior.”- Obi-wan

More important, how about this particular memoir, filled with a young man’s dreams of his father’s legacy being passed down with adoration:

“I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn’t allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did. It’s your father’s lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times, before the Empire. “- Obi-wan

 

No wonder Luke held his head down in pain (or was that mistrust?) on the Millennium Falcon after his confrontation with Vader and discovering his lineage.  Seriously, my head would hurt too, talk about a major migraine. Luke had to be in serious emotional turmoil, not to mention, physical anguish.

Oh and not to get off topic here, but I honestly don’t remember Anakin telling Obi-wan to take care of his lightsaber and to present it to his unborn son when he is of age, anyone?  For the record, I’m NOT throwing Obi-wan under the bus here, but as he says to Anakin, “You have done that yourself!” Seriously, I’m not pointing fingers, just pointing out the obvious. The evidence is there, whether we like it or not. You can either accept it for what it is, or you can choose to ignore it. Although, he is NOT the only Jedi Master who tells fibs, “No, there is another.” –Yoda

Yes, our little green friend doesn’t just use a unique speech pattern, but he also uses trickery when guiding Luke and storytelling. “Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he, powerful Jedi.

Indeed he was. I give Yoda props for telling Luke the truth in that regard, but still, where’s the rest of it? You know, the Prophecy of the “Chosen One.” The one who will restore balance to the Force and destroy the Sith. That’s a pretty big Sarlacc Pit to leave open, or would that be unopened? Regardless, you get the point.

“Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-wan’s apprentice.” -Yoda

Is it me, or is there a lot more dishonesty going on with the Jedi versus Sith? I mean, forever is a long time and quite an “absolute” statement I might add. Remember, “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” Maybe the Jedi should do less vocal negotiating and stick solely with, “Aggressive Negotiations.” After all, Actions do speak louder than words.

What about the Original Trilogy versus the Prequels?  Maybe I’m just over analyzing the whole scenario? Am I? With those questions dangling there, let’s take another look at Vader, shall we? Try as I may, there’s only one scenario that I considered to be a possible lie or form of deception; “altering of the deal” with Lando on Bespin.  Quite possibly this could fall under the category of, “changing your mind” and not that of an actual “lie.”  Well, what do you think?  Do you happen to cling to truths based on your own point of view? Maybe the real question is do we do it consciously or passively?

In my best Yoda voice:

“An answer?”

“A thought?”

”Anyone?”

Please, feel free to leave a comment or contact me directly at beccab@coffeewithkenobi.com  I really look forward to hearing your thoughts, insights, and ideas. Also, remember to leave a review on iTunes for Coffee With Kenobi! It’s greatly appreciated. This IS the Podcast you’re looking for.

Special thanks goes out to, Melinda! Thanks so much for my SW surprise. My Vader statue is Funtastic!

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30 Comments

  1. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 04:55 Reply

    Becca, much have you presented, and a great deal of pondering I must do. 😉 Sadly, it’s late, and I will wait until I am refreshed to present you with my response. (I want it to be coherent. 😉 ) I will say this before I bid you goodnight … from a parent’s point of view, I totally agree with you. It’s a fine line we walk. Even when we present our children with the unbridled, naked truth, there are so many factors to take into consideration — their age and maturity, what information we’re sharing, just how much of the truth should be told (at different stages of their lives). It isn’t to lie. It’s what we think they can handle at any given point. I find it easiest to be straight forward. I’d think it would be much too difficult to remember what “stories” have been told along the way. 😉
    (And Obi-Wan did not lie to Luke. From my point of view. 😉 More on that tomorrow. 🙂 )

  2. Erica
    February 21, 2014 at 10:14 Reply

    Very interesting! I think Ben is right that our truths depend on our own point of view, but I’ve always felt he was really stretching when he used that as an explanation as to why he told Luke what he did about how his father “died.”

    Thanks for the in-depth look! ♡♥♡♥

  3. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 15:42 Reply

    Sadly, Becca, I won’t be able to spend as much time here this morning as I originally thought I would be able to. Duty calls, and I have to venture out into this (I am not underestimating!) horrible, wicked winter weather. If I make it home safely, I’ll return later today. 😉

    Before I head off into these Hoth-like conditions, I would like to point out that when George Lucas got the go-ahead (funding 😉 ) for Star Wars: Episode IV, he was under the impression that that would be the ONE AND ONLY film in his space fantasy that would be made. Think about that fact for a moment — from a writer’s point of view. 😉

    So GL wrote this sweeping saga (which was very different from what we eventually saw on film in 1977), decides to pull out a segment of it, and works and reworks it into what he believed was a “stand alone” film (even though the story very easily could have continued past the awards ceremony).

    Everything that occurred during those 121 minutes made sense — even if the dialog was challenging at times for cast members to rattle off smoothly. 😉 Ben comes across Luke after our young hero has been attacked by Tusken Raiders, whisks Luke off to his (Ben’s) hovel, and Ben shares bits and pieces of his relationship with Luke’s father. (Wouldn’t you know it — at the moment I need my copy of the script — the book is off being repaired! I’ve used “The Art of Star Wars” so often that the binding finally began to give way. I found an exceptional individual who repairs delicate museum tomes who said he’d be happy to tackle my beloved book. He’s probably snowed in in northern Wisconsin, and it might take longer to get my book back than originally anticipated! But I NEED it now!!!)

    Anyway, I will do the best I can without my key reference guide to what eventually became known as ANH. 😉

    Ben didn’t lie! He told Luke the truth: “(Anakin) was the best star pilot in the galaxy…” Is there anyone who would cast doubt on that simple piece of information? “…and a cunning warrior.” True! True! True! “And a good friend.” Obi-Wan certainly was not lying there. He and Anakin were BROTHERS! 🙂

    If we’re going to split hairs here (and, again, Becca, please forgive me for not having my reference guide handy), it was Uncle Owen who pulled the wool over Luke’s eyes. “You’re father was a freight pilot…” (those may not be the EXACT words Uncle Owen uttered over their meal, but there was a reference to Luke’s father being a freight pilot of some sort.) For 19 standard years, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru kept the truth from Luke. To protect him, yes, but it was the only parents Luke knew who perpetrated a lie. 😉

    Becca, I’m so sorry. I have to scoot off. I’ll be back later. The wind today is so fierce I wonder how my little car will fare on the roads. Who will win? Me? Or Mother Nature? 😉

  4. yodashouseofpancakes
    February 21, 2014 at 17:39 Reply

    How often do we use lies to manipulate our children? “You better behave or Santa won’t come visit.” “If you keep making that face it’s going to stick like that.” “Stop that or you’ll go blind.”

    1. Melinda
      February 21, 2014 at 18:15 Reply

      The hardest question I ever had to answer was when my oldest, then 8, asked me: “Is Santa real, Momma?”

      Her best friend told her one day he wasn’t, forcing my hand. I still had to take into account that there was someone younger in the house who most assuredly still believed the man in the red suit existed.

      This was just one of those instances when I would have liked to have been in control … choosing what I deemed the right moment to share the truth. I did it as gently as possible, reminding myself that it’s always best to be honest (so why do we perpetuate this myth??? 😉 ). “No, my angel, there is no individual who flies in a reindeer-pulled sleigh on Christmas Eve to deliver gifts to boys and girls all over the world,” I answered as gently as possible. “But I like to believe that the spirit of Santa exists. If you want to do the same, you can. We can believe in that together.” 🙂

      I still believe in the spirit of Santa. 🙂

  5. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 18:07 Reply

    I’m back. Boy, was my little car batted around by a brutal wind! You know it’s wicked when the smoke emanating from chimneys is blowing perpendicular to the stacks! I’m home safe and sound, though, and ready to resume my defense of Obi-Wan (in particular)…

    Getting back to Obi-Wan and his first exchange with Luke…

    Has anyone really given Obi-Wan’s reaction to what happened to Anakin any real thought? I mean think about it — the two men were so very close; they experienced so much together; they forged a relationship that they felt would last a lifetime. Then, the unthinkable happens — Anakin allows himself to be swayed by the most evil individual in the galaxy. He turns his back on everything he knew and loved (yes, we all know Anakin felt that emotion despite any Jedi teachings), and JOINS THE SITH! When Ben explains to Luke that “Darth Vader murdered (Luke’s) father,” Ben was not lying. The moment Darth Vader was “born” — in Palpatine’s office, not when he donned the black suit — he ceased being Anakin Skywalker, and adopted a new persona.

    One might claim that was a lie of sorts. I don’t buy it. It was the truth … from a certain point of view.

    There are different degrees of truth, you know. Your daughter comes home from the hair styling salon. You thought she was just going to get a trim, expecting her to come home looking like the young lady who left. When she returns home, your first thought is: “A stranger just walked through the front door!” You allow yourself a second — even a third and fourth 😉 — glance, and find yourself looking at your daughter … only she has returned home with most of her head shaved, the 2-inch swath from forehead to nape and cascading a bit past her shoulders a vibrant orange! You quickly recover your composure, and she asks, hesitatingly, “What do you think, Mom? Like it?” Are you going to tell her the bald truth? “No, dear, I do not. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out let alone understand WHY you would do what you have done!” Instead, you take a moment, put on the best smile you can muster at that moment, and reply as evenly as possible, “Well, you know, dear, it’s different. I could get used to it.” … knowing all the while there is no way you will ever be able to! 😉

    Have you just lied? Maybe what you have just told your adorable, wild-minded daughter is — sort of — the truth. You can try to get used to her new hair style and color. You tell yourself that, given time, her hair will grow out. It’s likely she will tire of this hairdo. It really is a simple enough way for a teen to exert her independence — safely. (You just wish she would have consulted you first! 😉 ) In Obi-Wan’s case, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he had to devise a logical, understandable way to accept the fact that the brother he loved was no more. In Obi-Wan’s mind, Darth Vader truly murdered Anakin!

  6. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 18:41 Reply

    As a gentle reminder, please let me reiterate that, when Episode IV was in production, it really was expected to be the only Star Wars movie to hit the big screen. Obi-Wan’s counter to what Uncle Owen told Luke made a lot more sense, especially as we watched events unfold.

    So, Obi-Wan gives Luke Anakin’s lightsaber. Maybe Anakin didn’t hand it to Obi-Wan on Mustafar, and say, “Hey, buddy, please give this to my son when you think he’s old enough. I’d like him to have something of his old man’s from those days when I was a Jedi.” I think, though, that Obi-Wan telling Luke “Your father wanted you to have this.” (again, please forgive any misquotes) was Obi-Wan knowing that ANAKIN would have wanted Luke to have it. Aren’t there some things you know about the people to whom you are the closest that don’t have to be spoken??? Obi-Wan knew the Anakin he knew would want the lightsaber. (well, at this point, there is no Luke. Sure, Padme is pregnant, but who knows if she will survive let alone give birth to a boy or girl. I think Obi-Wan picked up Anakin’s lightsaber so it would not fall into the wrong hands.)

    As a parent (I cannot totally erase this fact from my point of view), Obi-Wan’s decision NOT to tell Luke his father was indeed the evil magistrate doing Palpatine’s bidding was the right decision to make at that particular moment in time. Obi-Wan’s association with Luke had been sporadic — at best — over the years. The Jedi-In-Hiding wasn’t altogether sure just how this impetuous young man would react to such shocking news! Furthermore, there were some VERY REAL similarities between Anakin’s personality and Luke’s. The threat of Luke following in Anakin’s footsteps was a genuine concern.

    Obi-Wan and Yoda always intended for Luke to know the complete truth. Was it tempered? Yes. By the time Luke was given every fact, Obi-Wan and Yoda hoped the Real Chosen One 😉 would be able to handle The Complete Truth. (Jack Nicholson’s roar “You can’t handle the truth!” in the courtroom drama “A Few Good Men” always comes to mind when I think of Star Wars fans’ accusations of Obi-Wan lying to Luke. 😉 )

    Like my hand being forced when Erin’s friend proclaimed, “There is no such thing as Santa Claus!” (see yodashouseofpancakes’ post; sorry if I’m breaking this news to you), Darth Vader forced the issue when he told Luke, “No, I am your father!” on Cloud City. It’s understandable Luke reacted the way he did — both on Cloud City, and when he “met up with” Obi-Wan’s Force spirit on Dagobah. Sadly, Luke had to come to his understanding alone, without the assistance of either of his mentors (at first).

    1. Melinda
      February 21, 2014 at 19:30 Reply

      (From the paragraph that begins “So, Obi-Wan gives Luke Anakin’s lightsaber.” …)

      (The sentence near the end of the paragraph starts: “Obi-Wan knew the Anakin he knew would want the lightsaber” … is supposed to finish with …) to go to his son (because we know — by the time Episode IV rolls around — that there is a Skywalker heir).

      (sorry for the faux pas! 😉 )

  7. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 19:51 Reply

    Yes, there is the eventual exchange between Luke and Force Spirit Obi-Wan Kenobi that seems to rankle so many fans. Luke accuses Obi-Wan of lying … and Obi-Wan delivers that famous line: “Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” THAT IS SO TRUE! Obi-Wan explains to Luke that Anakin was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force, and when he finally succumbed to it, the person who was Anakin Skywalker ceased to be … and Darth Vader replaced that once kind-hearted soul. I think Obi-Wan sincerely believed that — for his own sake as well as for Luke’s! And Obi-Wan wasn’t pulling any punches. By this time in the game, Darth Vader (who once had been Anakin) really was more MACHINE than man.

    Let me be blunt — Anakin may have fathered Luke (and Leia … we’ll get to her in a moment), but he was NOT Luke’s father — in the strictest sense of the word.

    As far as you bringing up the point that Yoda admits Luke’s paternal parentage (when his hand is forced ;-). Why not get everything out on the table? 😉 ) is concerned (including when he makes mention of Luke’s father in TESB: “Powerful Jedi. Powerful Jedi was he.”), you present the issue that Yoda did not go far enough — telling Luke the entire truth (that Anakin was the Chosen One). By ROTJ — when Yoda has more than 20 standard years to contemplate that prophecy — there may have been doubt about Anakin being the Chosen One. (You know where I stand on this matter. 😉 ) There certainly was doubt by the close of ROTS (despite what Obi-Wan cries on Mustafar before leaving Darth Vader to his fiery fate). Like I have said previously … I am not saying Anakin was NOT the Chosen One. I just am not totally convinced that he was. Who’s to say what Yoda truly believed by those moments before he passed to the other side of the Force.

  8. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 20:12 Reply

    Regarding any possible lies where the siblings are concerned, I would like to point out that … if memory serves me correctly … Luke and Leia originally were NOT meant to be brother and sister. Devising the script for “Return of the Jedi”, George Lucas said he needed a strong reason for Luke to let his anger get the better of him during the lightsaber battle with Darth Vader. Wanting to defend his friends did not seem strong enough to compel Luke to come out of hiding to best his father, from the Maker’s point of view. (I disagree … but that’s just me! 😉 )

    Hence, Leia became Luke’s sister. And caused fandom the world over to groan loudly, “Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! Leia plants a big one on her brother!!!” (in TESB 😉 )

    (I remember GL saying this in an interview about ROTJ. I have it on tape somewhere … only we no longer have a Beta nor a VHS player! A lot of good the tapes do me. lol)

    If nothing else, the revelation created quite a stir — about which we all still are talking! — and a twist to the plot. 🙂 It’s something we’ve all accepted. 🙂 Maybe because of our love of Star Wars. 😉 Maybe because — in our own minds — we could connect the dots (and wanted Han to get the girl? 😉 ). 😉

  9. Melinda
    February 21, 2014 at 20:29 Reply

    There you have it. 🙂 I think I’ve covered everything I wanted to discuss. For the time being, at least. 😉 lol I just might pop back later to add further thoughts.

    This was a fun blog to read, Becca. And to ponder. After 30 years, we fans still are discussing George Lucas’ space opera. Incredible! 😀

  10. Becca Benjamin
    February 21, 2014 at 23:09 Reply

    Hi, Erica 🙂 It’s wonderful to interact with you again on the Blogosphere.

    Yes, stretching the truth, that’s exactly what he did with Luke. Whether it was to protect him (Luke), or if it was something that he (Obi-wan) and Yoda had an agreement on for his (Luke’s) own protection, or because the Whole Truth was too dangerous to know and could jeopardize the entire plan; Kill the Sith.

    Thanks, Erica! Good to see you <3 🙂

  11. Becca Benjamin
    February 21, 2014 at 23:14 Reply

    🙂 Great examples, YHOP!
    Telling my kids about the Truth behind Santa was awful 🙁 Funny, it was only traumatizing for one lol! The other 2 were ok with it and said, “Yeah, I figured as much.”

    You’re lucky, you’re no where near those milestones yet lol!

    1. Melinda
      February 22, 2014 at 16:08 Reply

      And here I thought — when you said “…it was only traumatizing for one” — you meant YOU! 😉

  12. Jeff M
    February 21, 2014 at 23:39 Reply

    See, now I want to share the story of how I found out about Santa. Maybe I’ll work it into a Christmas blog at the end of the year.

    Anyway, great ideas presented in this entry, and it brings me to a question that I feel like I SHOULD know, but I don’t: Do we know exactly when Obi Wan knew that Vader didn’t die on Mustafar? I have to assume news of his exploits reached him on Tattooine, but I don’t really know for sure. The answer to THAT question would greatly influence my opinion on whether or not Obi Wan is just trying to protect Luke, if he’s just prolonging the inevitable, or if he and Yoda are playing games to manipulate Luke into doing what they know (i.e. THINK) he should do.

  13. Becca Benjamin
    February 21, 2014 at 23:39 Reply

    Wow! Melinda! You say that I have given you a lot to contemplate, but Oh My Goodness 🙂

    Don’t even know where to begin…..
    “The Straight Approach”, yes, absolutely! I agree with you there. I’m so not one to “beat around the bush” or “sugar coat” the truth. Although, you do make a valid point on the issue of maturity and how much an individual can handle, at a certain age.

    As for the 1977 script, yes, it was meant to be a “standalone” film. GL obviously never imagined his little “Space Opera” would ignite a spark into a fandom as huge as the GFFA (galaxy far, far away).

    Speaking of the fandom, it’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it? As you said, we are still talking about it now, even after 30 years! So thankful that I’m apart of something so wonderful 🙂

  14. Becca Benjamin
    February 21, 2014 at 23:48 Reply

    Ok, so now the “heavy” and more insightful nugget(s) you left for me to ponder. I’m taking this as a good thing and as a compliment. Hope you don’t mind, but I’m thrilled my entry provoked a fury of commentary from someone so well versed in SW; you 🙂

    Unfortunately, my living-room is chaotic at the moment, leaving me with little to no privacy. I promise to get back to your apprised musings ASAP. Until then, stay warm over there in the “cheese state.”

  15. Lillian Torres
    February 22, 2014 at 05:08 Reply

    My opinion:

    Lies, manipulation, omission. Obi Wan did it all, but for different reasons. Luke was such an innocent boy when his life was changed by 3PO and R2’s appearance, how could he have digested all what happened 20 some years ago in one sitting.

    Could Old Ben tell Luke outright: Darth Vader is your father, you have a twin sister, your father hunted and killed the Jedi, etc, etc.

    As an older, “supposedly wiser”, person, from my point of view, the only way to tell a story as big as the one they had to tell, was to spoon feed it. The manipulation was to point him in the right direction, and hope he wouldn’t be killed or turn to “The Dark Side” like his father. All to save a galaxy.

    There are times in our lives when we must think and watch what we say and it all depends on timing, situations, capability of the person you are addressing, etc. I remember all the lies I was told and omissions when something significant happened in my life and I bless the people who did it, because at that time more pain I could not take.

    MTFBWY my dear friend Beccca.

    1. Lillian Torres
      February 22, 2014 at 05:11 Reply

      Now if Obi Wan was doing it all for evil and not good, it would be a totally different story.

      1. Melinda
        February 22, 2014 at 16:07 Reply

        Which he was not … wouldn’t you agree? Obi-Wan didn’t have an evil/bad bone in his body. (or are you saying this tongue-in-cheek, lily? 😉 )

  16. Becca Benjamin
    February 22, 2014 at 16:31 Reply

    Hey there, Jeff 🙂 Santa tales? Please, share! I’d love to hear your Santa story.

    As to your query, I do believe it is mentioned in,”Rise of the Dark Lord” novelization that Obi-wan discovers,Darth Vader/Anakin is alive on a holoNet while at the Cantina on Tatooine. Don’t quote me, I’d have to double check, but I’m 85% sure 😉

    1. Jeff M
      February 22, 2014 at 16:53 Reply

      Maybe someday, Becca, if you behave, Santa will allow me to reveal the story.

      And that makes sense, but it also makes Obi-Wan seem like more of a liar, in my (admittedly not very) humble opinion. We saw in the prequels that the jedi are not infallible, and in fact have grown complacent in their temple, so it’s possible this is another example of Obi-Wan and Yoda’s hubris in thinking they know best.

      1. Melinda
        February 22, 2014 at 22:16 Reply

        While Obi-Wan may have learned that Anakin survived his Mustafar experience … please remember the book is NOT canon — and it was written DECADES after ANH (which wasn’t even titled that at the time of its release) came out. 😉

        Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda lied to Luke.

  17. Becca Benjamin
    February 22, 2014 at 16:59 Reply

    Ok, Melinda, I’m back with my cup of coffee and ready to play “catch up.” You’ve definitely brought a lot to the table and to be honest, I’m not sure I can counter all of it 😉 lol!

    First off, I want to state that I completely admire, Obi-Wan’s character. He’s always been a valiant knight, standing true to the Jedi Order, and upholding its mystical beliefs until and even after, his death.

    With that said, I’m not saying that the Jedi Order was always RIGHT in their decisions, in fact, they’ve been WRONG on many accounts. Their problems were mainly due to NOT accepting transition, that caused them their lives, but let’s not open up that can of worms 😉

    Now I just want to clarify, that when writing this entry, my POV was to challenge just what we know/have seen on the big screen, not based at all on the fact of GL’s initial intentions of the individual film.
    I’m only taking in account, the character(s) interactions with one another and how we interpret their dialog.

    I’m not dismissing it, not entirely, I do respect it and completely understand why you find it relevant.

    During the reveal(who Luke’s father is), Obi-wan does hold back, a lot. Again, not sure if it was consciously or passively done, but the truth of the matter is; Vader either IS or ISN’T, Luke’s father.

    1. Melinda
      February 22, 2014 at 22:57 Reply

      🙂

      As long as it doesn’t bother you that I went on … and on … and on … and on. 😉

      Tom and I were just talking last night about this blog, about how much I enjoy reading what you write (have to say), about how insightful I find your musings. They always give me a lot to think about, and because I believe you are interested in what I have to say in response, I feel free to write to my heart’s content. 😉 I hope you don’t mind.

      I wonder what it would be like to watch the Saga with my eyes closed. lol I know this sounds odd to propose, but much of what I find so compelling about watching any of the 6 films is that I get caught up in all the nuances — not always WHAT a character says, but HOW s/he says it … including body language, a tilt of the head, a look in the eyes, etc. The inferences each character relates in these forms of nonverbal communication are part of the story — and have a lot to do with our interpretations and keeping the dialog going so strong after all these years. It’s one of the reasons why I never get tired of watching the films (although quite a bit of time can elapse between viewings these days 😉 ).

      In closing (at least at this point ha ha), I will say that the Jedi Council tried its best to steer the Jedi down the right path. As Caitlin is ready to point out: “Just because something has been done a certain way for a long time does not mean it should continue that way.” Maybe she should have sat on the Council to get the revered Jedi heading in a new direction? 😉

  18. Jay
    February 22, 2014 at 17:14 Reply

    Bravo, my dear. Simply stunning blog.

    One of my favorite EU quotes, which I come back to time and again was said by Mara Jade Skywalker in Bloodlines (one of my favorite EU books):

    “Perception usually overrides facts.”

    LIFE is all about perspective. If we want to believe something bad enough, we will, often times even though the facts are staring us right in the face. There are examples of this running rampant through our beloved saga. I think that’s one reason we are so compelled by Star Wars in the first place – it’s not just a bunch of pew-pew and spaceships, it’s about the humanity within each and every one of us. The humanity we struggle with day-in and day-out…seeking truth is definitely one of those humanitarian struggles.

    You have given me SO much to think about here. I only have a few minutes to try and get this out before running out the door to Padawan #2’s basketball game, but let me try to get as much in as possible…

    You have pointed out SO many great things to ponder and debate. I agree that we sometimes have to stretch, bend or otherwise flat-out break the truth in order to protect those that we love. Does that make it wrong? Sinful? Deceitful? Depends on your perspective.

    Do I agree that Obi-Wan lied to Luke? Yes. Do I think he had good intentions at the time for doing it? Yes again. Do I agree with it?….maybe. I haven’t read “Kenobi” yet, but I just got it in the mail yesterday. I’m sure I will be able to empathize much more with his psyche at the time of the story once I do.

    I think the Vader/Luke exchange in the “bridge scene” of ROTJ is worth a look:

    Darth Vader: So, you have accepted the truth?

    Luke: I have accepted that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.

    …what is Luke’s perspective here??

    One last thought before I run out the door…What about Leia? We have forgotten to mention how SHE found out about her parentage in ROTJ from Luke:

    Princess Leia: Luke, don’t talk that way. You have a power I don’t understand and could never have.

    Luke: You’re wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you’ll learn to use it as I have. The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And… my sister has it. Yes. It’s you, Leia.

    Princess Leia: I know. Somehow, I’ve always known.

    ….wow…can you imagine what was really going through HER head at that moment? She had the calm veneer of her usual regal self, but I imagine her (pardon me – Twilight reference here) like Bella when she was transforming into a vampire. No one could see on the outside the pain, anguish, turmoil and torture she was going through on the inside.

    …more later…FANTASTIC blog!! 🙂

    1. Melinda
      February 22, 2014 at 22:29 Reply

      Wonderful, Jay! 🙂 While I still contend Obi-Wan did NOT lie to Luke (is not telling the entire truth an outright lie??? I definitely believe it ALWAYS was Obi-Wan’s intention to reveal everything to Luke — eventually. Events just didn’t go quite the way he hope they would go.), I definitely understand from where you are coming. 🙂

      Quickly … I know you are a big EU fan (although I do not know if you have read all the Star Wars novels), but there are a few novels in the realm throughout which Leia grapples with her feelings about being Vader’s daughter. It took her a lot longer to get past who her biological father was than it took Luke.

      On that note, I really never thought about that short exchange between Vader and Luke! Oh my goodness, yes … yes … yes! Luke puts his own spin on his parentage! The man/machine known as Darth Vader was not seen as his father, but the good, young Jedi who once was Anakin Skywalker was! Excellent catch! 🙂

      I love the Mara Jade reference! 🙂 She’s one of my very favorite EU characters! 😀

      I hope it was a fun basketball game! 🙂

  19. Becca Benjamin
    February 22, 2014 at 17:16 Reply

    Getting back to that, consciously or passively decision, whatever the case may be, he still HID the Real Truth. Oh, I’m sure he (Obi-wan) felt that his POV was justified, based solely on the past. In fear(yes, fear, something the Jedi frown upon)of the past repeating itself, he took caution of how much he was willing to disclose to Luke.

    Personally, I’d like to think that he(Obi-wan) finally “caved in” and coddled to young Luke. Almost as if, he was realizing where he and the Jedi Order, failed with Anakin. Luke, like his father were both exposed to,”human behaviors and emotional attachments.” This makes them “vulnerable individuals” and their reactions will prove to be different than that of a “Typical Jedi,” raised in the Temple.

  20. Carrie C
    February 23, 2014 at 00:28 Reply

    Excellent discussion, my friend!!

    When I first started blogging, I had written a series of entries briefly touching the surface of this very subject area (links to my archived entries):

    http://padmeslegacy.blogspot.com/2012/03/promises-madepromises-broken.html

    http://padmeslegacy.blogspot.com/2012/03/tangled-web-of-deception-prequels.html

    http://padmeslegacy.blogspot.com/2012/03/from-certain-point-of-view-deception-in.html

    The phenomenon of lies, deception, and untruths is common throughout the saga, and you delved into this subject so much more eloquently than I did way back then 😉

    That being said, there are times in our lives where divulging the whole/entire truth would be more harmful than only telling part of the story/truth. Since I talked to you a couple of weeks ago, when things here spiraled out of control, I have had to take some measures to protect my youngling…to protect his innocence and view of things. He knows the basics of what happened and what currently is going on; but a four-year-old will not understand many things. Do these times make us horrible people or parents? I do not think that it does…as we can tell the truth as appropriate for the situation and person’s developmental level.

    I will ponder some more, and may come back sometime in the next few days with my thoughts. Again…loved reading your thoughts on this!!

  21. Becca Benjamin
    February 23, 2014 at 03:35 Reply

    Melinda, a response from you is never a bother. As I said before, my whole intention for blogging SW, is to provoke the reader to conjure up new ideas and conceptions of the saga. So yes, comment away.

    Your padawan is right! Go ahead and tell her that I agree with her 100% 🙂

    Watching SW with ones eyes closed, what an intriguing idea! That might be something I’d be willing to try, just to gain a new perspective on the films. Yes, I might do this tomorrow, starting with ANH.

    Thanks again, Melinda. I’ve enjoyed your insights and perhaps I’ll revisit this tomorrow, after a good nights rest of contemplation 😉
    Until then, MTFBWY…

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Blogger for Coffee With Kenobi, Personal Author for Steve Anderson Lucasfilm Illustrator & Artist, & Featured Blogger, Administrative Consultant, Copy Editor for The Cantina Cast. * I'm just a simple girl, trying to make my way in the universe. *

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